Historic Preservation Committee

Oral History

Interview with Skip Watts by Tim Delchamps for the Historic Preservation Committee of Mountain Lakes, New Jersey, August 21, 1994.
TD: -1994, Skip Watts. Skip, where were you born?
SW: I was born January 18, 1927 in Dr. Mills Hospital in Morristown, which is no longer in existence and my parents lived at 28 Shore Road in Mountain Lakes at the time.
TD: And they had lived in Mountain Lakes for-
SW: My mother came very early in the game in 1910 or '11-it's up for grabs-with her parents, the Doremuses-William R. Doremus, who was her father, who was also the first mayor, and Pearl Doremus and her two sisters and brother. One sister ultimately died as a result of food poisoning from some bad condensed milk they got. But that was-they lived at 184 Laurel Hill Road when they came here. My other grandparents, Lou and Irene Watts, lived on 77 Briarcliff Road. And the irony of that is that my first son, also Lewellyn Watts, the second (Junior) married a girl also named Irene, which was kind of interesting. It kind of screwed the family's history up a little bit. And we lived at 28 Shore Road right up until World War II, really. And at that time my parents moved briefly to Towako. My father got the great effort that he wanted to raise food for the-you know, for his part-doing his part in the war. So we got a farm on Jacksonville Road in Towako and they lived there while I was in the Marine Corps.
TD: What-
SW: Go ahead.
TD: I was going to ask you, when were you in the Marine Corps?
SW: I went in the Marine Corps-actually, I went in the-January of my senior year, so it was January, 1944. But they didn't call me up. They told me, "Don't worry. We won't call you right up." We graduated June 18th. July third [chuckles] I got a greetings from the government, "Please report to New York City, Church Street," and I was in the Marine Corps. That was it; it was that quick. [chuckles]
TD: I remember that July very well. Let's see, Lewellyn Watts, the second.
SW: Yes, was my uncle. My-
TD: Lived on-
SW: On Morris Avenue.
TD: Morris Avenue, right.
SW: Ya, 120 Morris. So we have a great kind of a history of Watts and Doremuses in Mountain Lakes. My grandfather, as I said, was the first mayor of Mountain Lakes.
TD: Okay, I think we'll probably hit on some of the family some more-
SW: Okay.
TD: -in a little while. But how about your own family?
SW: Okay. My wife-I met Polly-I met her when I was at the University of Rhode Island going to college.
TD: It was then Rhode Island State.
SW: Ya, it was Rhode Island State College at that time. Yes, it was an agricultural school. I was up there on a-frankly, a football scholarship and majored in physical education and physical therapy, and met Polly there. We were married the-let's see, we graduated in June and were married September 17th in Rhode Island.
TD: 19-
SW: 1959-no, 1949. Correction, '49, ya. 1949 we were married and we had a small house in West Orange for less than a year. And suddenly there was a bambino coming, so we decided that no way could we stay there. There were a number of reasons so we wanted to get back into Mountain Lakes. So we came back to Mountain Lakes and lived with my parents. We had the third floor at 184 Laurel Hill Road. Then my grandmother died and my grandfather didn't want to keep the house at 77 Briarcliff Road so he gave it to Polly and I. So we moved in there and stayed there a long time, then moved again briefly-business move to Florida. We were in Florida for two years and came back to Mountain Lakes, lived in Diaper Village, and I'm sure everybody listening to this knows what Diaper Village is, at least to us. And we lived on Midvale Road and then we ended up buying the house that we had just sold at 21 Larchdell Way.
TD: And you're moving to-
SW: We're moving to Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina.
TD: Okay. I wanted to ask you about the Larch-the Laurel Hill Road house-
SW: Yes.
TD: -and the fire.
SW: Laurel Hill Road house is very interesting. While it was built by Hapgood, it was designed by my Grandmother Doremus. And then, let's see, they moved in 1910, 1911, I guess. I'm not quite sure. Mountain Lakes had no fire department at that time. They were away-they were down in Paterson visiting my great aunt, my grandmother's sister. And when they came up the boulevard off Bloomfield Avenue, which people don't know what is, but Bloomfield Avenue-they saw the smoke and the red glow in the sky. And my grandfather said, "Looks like there's a house on fire." Well, needless to say, it was 184 Laurel Hill Road. It burned right to the ground. Right to the ground because the nearest fire department was in Hanover, New Jersey, so it took them probably an hour to get there. But they got there and the house was gone.
TD: Mountain Lakes was then part of Hanover.
SW: Ya, it really was. My kids-in fact, my grandmother and my Aunt Lillian went to school in Hanover. That's where they went to school. And-
TD: So the house was [unclear].
SW: The house burned to the ground so my grandmother and grandfather decided they were going rebuild it on the same foundation exactly the way it was before. And to every single window, hinge or floorboard, it was built as a dead replica of the house that had burned down.
TD: I see. Now, you say Hapgood built it as a custom house.
SW: Yes, he built it as a custom.
TD: Ya. It has a very distinctive custom-
SW: It's got some unusual-the columns in the front, the front porch is an unusual feature. The-and inside it's got some interesting features. It's got a-the way the staircase is designed is very interesting. And, of course, it has a picture window and houses in 1912 [chuckles] didn't have picture windows.
TD: Right, and the other thing it has is a long [several words unclear]-
SW: Yes. In fact, originally their property went all the way down to the lake, and the boulevard and the Toonerville trolley tracks ran through their property.
TD: Okay, and then that house that is right next to the beach parking lot, that was-
SW: Yes.
TD: -built much later, was that-
SW: That was a Hapgood House and that was there-that was there. Well, no, it was built later. Actually, 184 Laurel Hill Road is the first house on that side of the big lake. It was built on that side of the big lake.
TD: Right, okay. And you say-and that was, I think, about 1911.
SW: Ya, 1911, 1912. I'm a little shaky on those years. I think-my mother probably can tell you better what year it was, but I'm a little shaky on what years it was.
TD: Let's see. So we've covered all the houses you lived in, except you didn't tell me where you lived on Maple Way or-
SW: Midvale Road. We lived at 124 Midvale Road, which is-was one of the Diaper Village houses that faced Midvale-didn't face into the little roads in there.
TD: Right, and before that, of course, Diaper Village, or that land was Nafie's Field.
SW: Played-
TD: Played baseball and football down there.
SW: Played baseball and football there, yes.
TD: And I can still remember [unclear] hitting homeruns into the woods.
SW: That's right, [chuckles] and some of the guys running through the outfield and falling over the rocks that were buried in the ground. [laughs]
TD: Ya, Nafie's Field. What are your-what are some of your special memories about growing up? I hesitate to ask you this question.
SW: Ya, we could go on, unfortunately, forever. That's right. Special memories about growing up in Mountain Lakes. Probably one of the greatest memories I ever had of growing up in Mountain Lakes was Miles Browning-we were all at the Mountain Lakes Club and he buzzed the club in a sea plane-a Navy sea plane and landed it on the big lake. Now, fortunately, Miles at that stage of the game was probably a commander or something-
TD: He was a lieutenant commander.
SW: At least a lieutenant commander because I think anybody else would have been down to seaman first class. [laughs]
TD: Well, I'll tell you a little more about that. At that time he was a lieutenant commander and he was the operations officer at Hampton Road. And that was a Navy Scout plane, which-a biplane, of course, in those days, a single [several words unclear]. And he was asked not to land on the lake by the council because Don Conover, who was a World War I Navy pilot, didn't want him taking off over his house, because if he lost his engine he might [unclear].
SW: [chuckles] Go [unclear] in the living room. Oh, my God.
TD: So I have something to show you. We have a film. It's on tape now that one of Browning nieces sent us of the Browning visit to the Mountain Lakes Club.
SW: The event, ya. [laughs]
TD: And before you leave here I'll show it to you.
SW: Oh, wonderful.
TD: But we'll go on here and I think you'll enjoy it.
SW: Wonderful. Other things that probably stand out in my mind. At 184 Laurel Hill Road right down by the boulevard there's a stone wall. And there used to be-just recently it was cut because it died-there was a beautiful, big pine tree there. And my grandmother and grandfather used to decorate it every year with colored lights. And that was really some tree; that was just gorgeous.
TD: I remember when that was decorated.
SW: Ya, ya.
TD: That was really lovely.
SW: That was some gorgeous tree. Another thing do I remember-I think-and you must remember this as well as I-when gym class in high school consisted of going down and cutting down trees and clearing the brush to make what's now Wildwood Field.
TD: Right.
SW: That was fun. And, of course, I played in the first football game ever played on Wildwood Field against North Arlington. I hate to tell you, we got hammered pretty badly. [laughs]
TD: By the blue and white, huh?
SW: Ya, the blue and white of North Arlington.
TD: Well, let me ask you a question about that. What year was that that we first played on the field, because I remember-
SW: 1942-the fall of 1942, ya.
TD: Okay, and that, of course, was cut out of the swampy land down there.
SW: Ya.
TD: And we had-it was a fairly primitive-
SW: Oh, ya. It was a rather primitive facility. [chuckles] You may remember too that the American Legion, who was very active in Mountain Lakes at that time were really the people who pressed for that field led by Paul Dillon and that crew, and Rip Schultz and that gang who were in the American Legion. They were the ones who pushed to have that field built.
TD: Ya, I remember-I-early in the '40s when I was still in college-I remember working down there.
SW: Ya.
TD: And I remember hitting baseballs down there and-
SW: Oh, sure. There was a baseball diamond at one corner of it.
TD: Right on the corner was the corner toward Wildwood School.
SW: That's correct, ya.
TD: Okay. Well, now let's see. I know you must have other memories. For example, did you have anything to do with putting chickens in the Mountain Lakes Club or taking them out?
SW: Well, I must admit a couple of Halloween pranks. Halloween was a lot of fun in those days. One prank I remember is Mrs. Mueser-the Muesers, who lived on Lake Drive, kept chickens. So we proceeded to, one Halloween, swipe a chicken from the Muesers, take it around and I was with my cousin, Harvey and-
TD: That's Harvey Watts.
SW: Harvey Watts, ya. And we threw the club-we opened the door of the club and threw the chicken in the lobby and slammed it. And Mr. Shuer, who had a bit of a shaking problem anyhow, practically went crazy with this chicken running around.
TD: He was a manager-
SW: He was the manager of the club. And, of course, they were having a costume dance that night. And, of course, chickens-that chicken did what chickens tend to do when they get excited. [chuckles] And it was a mess. And several years after that-a year or two after that we decided we were going to steal the bell from the community church. So we climbed up in the bell tower, unloosened it, lowered it down with a rope and when it set on the floor the bell was so flat that we couldn't get our fingers underneath it and we couldn't rock it. [chuckles] So we had to leave the bell in the bell tower-down at the floor of the bell tower.
TD: [unclear].
SW: And we got caught, by the way. We got caught. Harry Dennis came up and-who was police chief at the time. I'll never forget it. We were out walking home figuring-very proud of ourselves that we'd done this. He walked up behind us-came up behind us with his car, tooted his horn and just said one thing, "Get in." So we did get in and he took us down to the jail, which at that time was in-down off Romaine Road. And we spent the night in jail. He called my parents and my father said, "Lock the door. Let him stay there overnight." Then Harry got nervous and went out to Paul's diner and bought us hamburgers. [laughs]
TD: Well, that chicken story I've heard.
SW: Oh, ya. That chicken story was famous.
TD: That bell has been assaulted by generations.
SW: Oh, yes. We were just one of the many generations that got to it.
TD: I remember my brother was apprehended at the bell.
SW: [laughs]
TD: And Barney Stringer and Bill Shale.
SW: Ya.
TD: And they were sort of cut ups and they assured Harry that Jack didn't have anything to do with it.
SW: Ya.
TD: Anyway, let's-
SW: That crew consisted of Benny Cox, George Warren, Bill Molten and myself. [chuckles] And we were the-sort of the ringleaders of the whole gang that lowered it down.
TD: Well, you've now indicted all of them.
SW: [laughs] Yes.
TD: I was wondering if you had any other-besides the chicken story, any other memories of major events that you-
SW: Major events. Oh, my gosh. Well-
TD: Well-
SW: Of course, Memorial Day was always a major event to kids when we grew up. Probably a major event that I will never forget was when Picatinny Arsenal blew up. And we were at the house on Shore Road and we happened to be sitting on the porch. I don't know why because normally we did not sit out on the front porch. And all of a sudden before even a sound, the trees all bent and then the explosion and then the great wall of fire up in the air. And the explosion was so heavy that it cracked our front steps on-at 28 Shore Road. In fact, the steps are still cracked. [chuckles]
TD: Well, we had-we lost a [several words unclear]. I was thinking, you do remember the Picatinny explosion and that-
SW: I sure do.
TD: You must have been-
SW: I was a kid. I was almost a-
TD: You must have been an infant.
SW: I was. I don't even remember what year it was.
TD: I thought it was '27 but it may have been '28.
SW: I think it was '28. I think I was about a year old, ya. But it's funny. As young as I was, it's engrained in my mind about that happening. Ya.
TD: Aside from your own family, which was noteworthy-
SW: [laughs]
TD: -because of its achievements and its personalities, what other memorable people do you recall?
SW: Memorable people? Oh, I will bring you to a memory. There was a young man in high school who was in my cousin Lou's class and Lou was two years-three years ahead of me named Millard C. Bede Brifocal. And you may or may not remember him. Well-
TD: Ya, I remember Bede.
SW: One day when we were on Larchdell Way we were sitting in the living room and the doorbell rang. And I opened it up and there was an Episcopal minister standing there in his full regalia. I took one look at him and he said, "Hi, my name is"-Polly was standing next to me. She'd never met this guy. "Hi, my name is Reverend Millerd Brifocal." And I went, "Bede." And my wife said to this day she doesn't know that any Episcopal ministers are called Bede except him.
TD: Well, for some reason I never expected him to do that-minister.
SW: The last thing in the world I would figure because he was the one who maybe would think up the problems and the troubles. [laughs]
TD: He was also a very fine basketball player.
SW: Yes, he was.
TD: And he was a clown.
SW: Ya, ya.
TD: So visualizing him in the pulpit's a little difficult.
SW: Ya, there were some-I guess who do I remember most? I remember some of the great-I remember Earl Anibel as our high school principal, the quiet man who quietly ran a very tight ship in high school. And when we were-you and I were in school at-on what is now Briarcliff School and that was high school.
TD: Well, he influenced a lot of us.
SW: He influenced a lot of us. I remember another great guy, Abe Smith, who was the-our coach and physical education teacher. And Abe, bless his heart, is still alive and well. And he's coming to our 50th reunion in October.
TD: Oh, he's been to every reunion-
SW: That ever-but he's still alive and well and still up and coming.
TD: Abe was a little All-American quarterback at Rutgers.
SW: Ya.
TD: And his wife was an Olympic-or she was contending for a place on the Olympic team, which you heard.
SW: Ya, as a swimmer or something.
TD: As a diver.
SW: Diver, ya. Okay, ya.
TD: So Abe was really part of the fabric of the town.
SW: The interesting thing about Abe is that in his older years he has turned into a marvelous artist.
TD: A wonderful painter.
SW: Absolutely beautiful work. Just gorgeous work.
TD: Did you know that his daughter was married to the president of Yale?
SW: No, I did not.
TD: Not the current president but the past president who became the baseball commissioner.
SW: Oh, really?
TD: Yes.
SW: Well, I'll be darned.
TD: So she was widowed.
SW: Huh.
TD: Abe Smith is clearly-
SW: Who else do I remember? I remember a man who's still alive-Chumsy Macfarland, who was a foreign correspondent. I don't know. I always looked at Chumsy thinking, 'There's Chumsy with his trench coat on.' I'm sure he didn't wear one but I used to think Chumsy is the old consummate foreign correspondent. [chuckles]
TD: Well, Chumsy is certainly still a character.
SW: He's still a character. Unfortunately, he's virtually blind.
TD: What do you know that-in talking with him? His blindness hasn't affected his-
SW: Mental capacity.
TD: -mental capacity.
SW: Absolutely not.
TD: [unclear] articulation has always been marginal but his mental capacity is sharp.
SW: Marvelous, ya. That's true.
TD: He remembers [chuckles]-
SW: That's true.
TD: -all kinds of things. I was thinking of-I'm still on Abe Smith, I guess, and I can't remember what it was I wanted to mention in passing. But I don't know whether you're aware of it but he had-I think it was six championships in Plainfield-state championships.
SW: Ya. Yes, after he left Mountain Lakes.
TD: After he left Mountain Lakes and he also had-I was very surprised about this-seven wrestling meets-
SW: I'll be darned.
TD: -that he coached.
SW: Well, I must say that at one time-one of the years I played-I believe it was my junior year, which would the season of '42, we were what they called smaller schools conference champions. And the famous game we played for the championship at Netcong-Netcong High School only had an 80-yard football field. [chuckles] And when you'd get down to the 20-yard line they'd pick the ball up and move it back to the 40. And Russ Granton was fullback and Russ cut through the line, ran all the way through the end zone, jumped the fence and ran into a cemetery that was there, which was the reason why the field was only 80 yards-
TD: [unclear] touchdown.
SW: -put the ball down and said, "Is this a touchdown?" [laughs]
TD: Well, Russ-you know, earlier he was center-
SW: Ya.
TD: [unclear]. And I guess that must have been when you were a junior-
SW: When I was a junior. Ya, he was a senior.
TD: And he was playing-
SW: And they moved him to fullback. He and Red Schultz were in the backfield.
TD: Ya, Red-
SW: And Gayle Allen. Good Lord.
TD: And Red was a great running back, ya.
SW: Ya.
TD: The only problem was he couldn't see where he was going.
SW: I know. [chuckles] He'd kind of get lost once in awhile.
TD: Well, that's some interesting-those are some interesting sports highlights.
SW: Ya, I just really-it's so difficult to-
TD: How about-I have a question. Where did your family shop for groceries?
SW: Oh, well, usually-most of the time they would go to Yaccarino's. And my mother didn't want to call up Yaccarino's and have them deliver, so she would go down there. She wanted to see what she was buying, you know. So she'd go down to Yaccarino's and shop. Then she would go up to Denville. There was a market in Denville on Diamond Spring Road and it was not Peers. But it was near where the bank is right now up there. I can't remember the name of it.
TD: I can't remember it either.
SW: But-
TD: Then the other alternative I guess was Boonton and Blocks in Boonton.
SW: Ya, Blocks in Boonton.
TD: And Del Signor.
SW: Yes.
TD: And that's-and he earned enough money with his market to build Del's Village.
SW: That's right. That's right. Ya, Del Signor -yes. That's' right. Shop at Del Signor's. Gosh, I didn't even remember Del Signor's. But I remember Yak's.
TD: There was also an A&P down there as I remember.
SW: Ya, way down at the bottom of the hill. Ya, and-oh, and then there was the famous Peter Pan Market-
TD: Yes.
SW: -down where Marcello's is right now-
TD: Right.
SW: -which burned to the ground in the middle-I was on the fire department when we got called in that night and Peter Pan Market burned to the ground.
TD: Well, speaking of notable people, why don't you tell us about your career on the-
SW: Fire department?
TD: -fire department.
SW: Well, I started in 1941-correction-1942 as a junior fireman in high school, because in those days there were very, very few men in Mountain Lakes who were here even evenings because so many of the young men were away in the service. So the fire department decided that they would enlist a group of guys who were in high school and make us junior firemen with limited, you know-limited abilities to do things, limited authority to do things. And interestingly, to this day they have an extremely active junior fire department.
TD: And that's when it started.
SW: And that's when it all started during World War II. And I was on the fire department, went away in service. When I came back, went back on the fire department and retired in 1992 after 50 years of serving the fire department in Mountain Lakes.
TD: And you were an exempt fireman.
SW: I'm exempt fireman and I'm an ex-chief. I was chief for four years. And [chuckles] my claim to fame on being chief was when I was elected chief Jan 1st-Jan 18th was my birthday and January 18th Wilson School went up.
TD: I recall.
SW: [laughs]
TD: We had just moved back to town.
SW: Ya.
TD: And we were in this house.
SW: Oh, so you were just down the street. Ya.
TD: This house is 80 Laurel Hill Road. And we heard the commotion toward the end and-
SW: Ya.
TD: -didn't know what it was.
SW: Well, actually I got a call at home from Buzz Barton, who was the dispatcher, said that somebody had just called him and thought that there was some smoke coming out of Wilson School. So I jumped in my car and I had-the chiefs-the officers had radios in their cars at that time. So I went up there and when I looked up the hill I saw one of the classrooms just one solid ball of flame. So I called in and told Buzz-I said, "Roll everybody you can get your hands on." So they rolled Rainbow Lakes. They rolled two companies from Boonton. They rolled Boonton Township and every truck we had. And by the time our first truck got there it had-the fire exploded through the cockloft and the whole roof of the building was-it was on fire. It was complete and it was around-it was then-and what we used to call in the fire department "surround and drown" at that stage of the game, because there was nothing we could do to save it.
TD: The interesting thing about that location is that the house across the street that belonged to the Campbells-
SW: Ya.
TD: -burned earlier.
SW: Yes.
TD: And your grandparents house burned and then all-
SW: Which was two doors up.
TD: [unclear].
SW: You kind of wonder, don't you? [chuckles]
TD: That sort of gives me a strange feeling. And another one is that Gibby Jones and Gil Higgins-
SW: Ya.
TD: -and, let's see.
SW: Didn't Grigsby's Station burn at one time too?
TD: I'm thinking of people who died in the war now.
SW: Oh. Oh, ya.
TD: [unclear]. These people lived in houses that were within sight of each other.
SW: Good Lord!
TD: And Ed Saunders-Ed Saunders, Bill Cole and Gil Higgins all lived in this triangle here.
SW: Good Lord! That's really-
TD: That was a terrible coincidence but-okay, now, let's see. On the side-fires-are there any other notable fires [unclear]-
SW: Well, of course, when I was a junior fireman we-the market caught fire. And that was the first fire I have ever been involved in where there was a fatality. And that was odd. That was a long fire and it was just the kids.
TD: Was that in January?
SW: Ya, I remember because it was so cold. Oh, God, it was cold.
TD: Icicles.
SW: It was icicles. The whole Midvale Road was like a skating rink because all the water was freezing as soon as it hit. And the one end-the whole end burned. But that was where the Thoades-Thoades Candy Store.
TD: Rhodes.
SW: Rhodes.
TD: Oh, Rhodes.
SW: Rhodes, that's right. Thoades was in Boonton; Rhodes was in Mountain Lakes. Rhodes Candy Store and ice cream store burned. And then-[tape turned off/on] [end of side 1, tape 1]
TD: We were talking about the fire in the stores and Skip had just mentioned Charley Blair's drug store. Charley Blair, Junior went to Rutgers; his sister went to NYU and she at that time was bringing home anti-Semitic pamphlets.
SW: [chuckles]
TD: It turns out that Skip's cousin, Lou Watts, who was a-later a professional baseball player and insurance-
SW: And one of Charley's buddies.
TD: Right.
SW: Ya.
TD: And Skip Watts was one of Charley, Junior's buddies. But he got so upset one day when he was in the drug store and Charley's sister was-
SW: Espousing all their anti-Semitic things, ya.
TD: -espousing the anti-Semitic feelings. And this was before we got in World War II and Lou stalked out in there. And he said-as he stormed out he said, "When the war starts the first thing I'm going to do is throw a bomb in there."
SW: Oh, my God! [chuckles]
TD: That's what he said.
SW: Luckily, it wasn't heard.
TD: Well, anyway. You didn't hear that before.
SW: No, that's a new one.
TD: Do you remember anything about road construction? You were only three when they were building the road.
SW: Ya, but I do remember mud. Mud, mud and more mud even when they were building the roads. And the mud had mud and God forbid we would have a day like today where it would rain all day, because you just-the roads-I don't know why but the roads in Mountain Lakes seem to produces better mud than anyplace I can remember. [laughs]
TD: Good mud.
SW: Ya, good mud. I also remember when they built the extension to the boulevard. The boulevard would only-only ran to where Crane Road crossed it. That was the end of it.
TD: Ya, except that Crane Road was the Boulevard.
SW: Crane Road was the Boulevard at that time. It went up and hung a left and then you went out to Bloomfield Avenue. And I remember when they built it because at that time we were living at 28 Shore Road. And it was right across the back and we watched. And I used to go out and hang out there and get-you know, get in the way of the guys that were working. And one night I came home and I guess I was pretty dirty. And my mother said to me-she said, "You've got to remember; you go over there, the gypsies are going to take you because those guys are all gypsies." And I will tell you. [laughter] That was the last time I went over there. I'd sit on their back yard and watch them.
TD: If they were gypsies, they were Italian gypsies.
SW: Ya, they were Italian gypsies. [laughs]
TD: But I remember how impressed I was when they were building-when they were paving Valley Road. I was impressed with the sandwiches that they brought to work.
SW: Oh, ya. Big heroes.
TD: They were always a full loaf of bread.
SW: Well, in fact, one summer I-one summer while I was in high school I worked on the Lackawanna Railroad along with some other guys from Mountain Lakes. We worked as road-regular track crews on-and the Italian track crew guys would come who worked on our road gang. Oh, what they'd eat for lunch! I'd-you'd look at it and you'd say to yourself, "It'd kill an average human being. You couldn't eat it." [chuckles]
TD: Well, those were interesting times.
SW: They were wonderful times.
TD: Do you remember anything about the lakes in particular that-
SW: You know, it's an interesting thing. To me, the lakes were always just there. They were there. And it was really I don't think until I was quite a bit older that I suddenly woke up one morning and realized that they had been made. They had been built to make Mountain Lakes Mountain Lakes. And-
TD: I think we both had the same experience.
SW: It was the darndest thing. But I do remember the Foxhill-when-of course, because we lived on Shore Road. And The Foxhill Ice Company, who-really, long before I was born built those three lakes as a place to cut ice. But I remember what is now the road that runs up to Birchwood was a railroad track. Bring it down, cross Pocono. Bring it down through-
TD: Across the new boulevard and through the woods.
SW: Ya, through the woods and end up in Dixons.
TD: In fact, you can see the embankment.
SW: Ya.
TD: But don't look too carefully because you'll run off the road.
SW: [laughs]
TD: It's fairly close to the telephone office-
SW: Ya.
TD: -and the bank.
SW: And I do remember the ice houses-at least the foundations of [unclear]-of the icehouses. [phone ringing] Go ahead. Do you want to get-
TD: No, somebody else will get that.
SW: Oh, the foundations of the icehouse were in-there was one at Sunset and there was one in Crystal, and there was-I don't know whether-ya, I think there was one even on Birchwood. But they were huge logs that were below the water. And that was kids-oh, man-prowl around in those things. And I-for all I know, they're still there. They may still be there.
TD: That's interesting. Those were a good fortune to the town-I mean, the fact that they put those dams in.
SW: To go back to characters-
TD: Ya.
SW: -that lived in Mountain Lakes, there was one character who I knew quite well, Robert Alexander Watson who lived also on Shore Road who was an author of note of westerns. And he had a pseudonym and he wrote a ton of western books.
TD: He had a beard.
SW: And he had a beard and he had the long white hair. And I can remember him going out in the lake and he had a sickle on the end of a long stick. And he would cut the pond lilies in Sunset Lake and keep it clear of pond lilies. He would spend all summer sitting in his canoe going clip, clip, clip, clip cutting the pond lilies.
TD: That's interesting. They did grow.
SW: And in fact right now they're coming back. And it's been a long time but they're now starting to come back. At one time that lake was almost choked with pond lilies. But Mr. Watson decided he was going to keep it open so he would get in his canoe every morning. And he was sort of an inventor of note, a tinkerer inventor of note. He had the craziest gadgets. He had designed a thing to pick his boat up out of the water. And Mrs. Watson, who was very frail-she could take and pick the canoe up out of the water and swing it over and put it on its rack. And it was because he-some kind of a lever-kind of a cantilever type operation he had, and that picked that boat up just as easy as you please. It was very interesting.
TD: A very interesting man also on Shore Road was Dr. Hull-Louis-
SW: Lou Hull, ya.
TD: And he was later president of Aircraft Radio. He founded Aircraft Radio.
SW: Oh, really? Those Boonton Township-Aircraft Radio, Valentines Labs, Johansen Engineering, RFL-they were really the pioneers of the electronics industry as we know it today.
TD: They were indeed. Louis Hull was also president of the IRE, which is now the IEEE-
SW: Oh, ya.
TD: -in the 1930s and was noted in particular for his contributions to Aircraft Radio, which Jimmy Doolittle worked on out in Rockaway with-
SW: Ya.
TD: -Aircraft Radio.
SW: He used to fly in and out of that field, didn't he?
TD: In the Army, ya. As an Army-
SW: Ya.
TD: -kind of, ya.
SW: Ya, he flew in and out of that field out there.
TD: In fact, he flew in and out with a hood over his head-
SW: Good Lord! [chuckles]
TD: -on one occasion. Of course, there was another backup pilot.
SW: Just to check the landing and controls.
TD: Right, right.
SW: Good Lord!
TD: And so that was a [unclear]-
SW: Very interesting-I-ya, we had our house sale and who showed up but Carolyn-Carly Hull, as we all knew her.
TD: Carly-
SW: Carly Hull, ya.
TD: Carly, having lived on-
SW: Ya, Carly lived next door to us.
TD: And there she was.
SW: Ya.
TD: Carly is-has had a career at [unclear].
SW: Yes.
TD: [several words unclear]
SW: A little different but-
TD: A little different but-
SW: [laughs]
TD: -still brilliant and always a friend. Let's see. I think-did you feel the Depression at all in Mountain Lakes?
SW: Not really, because my father, my uncle and my Grandfather Watts were in the wholesale butter and egg business in New York. And even when butter was selling for 10 cents a pound they were making money.
TD: People had to eat.
SW: Ya. We never really felt it.
TD: Well, I think-I don't think that we did either because our-my father was working four days a week but that was-
SW: But he was working; that's it.
TD: -it was enough; he was working.
SW: Ya.
TD: I was thinking of the butter and egg business and I remembered that Lou's father-Lou, your cousin-
SW: Ya.
TD: Well, your first cousin, Lou-his father was after him to get into the business and Lou wouldn't have anything to do with it.
SW: As was my father-as was my father after me to get into the business. And if it had turned out, Lou and I would have been in the business together. But the whole idea was that they wanted to perpetuate Watts and Sons. And interestingly enough, they couldn't have held it where it was because the World Trade Center is right on the site of where their business was [laughs]-
TD: Well-
SW: -at 17 J Street in New York.
TD: Needless to say, both of their sons wanted to become athletes.
SW: Both of their sons wanted to do anything but be in the butter business. That's what they wanted to be.
TD: I was thinking of Lou. He went down to Beaumont, Texas and he pitched and I remember at age 29 or 30 he was saying, "You know, as you get older you have to pitch to spots."
SW: Ya.
TD: And that's what he was doing in Texas.
SW: Well, Lou, of course, was a character and still is a character to end all characters. He ended up his baseball career in New Iberia, Louisiana, which you can't get much further down than that. And he said that they used to take out and drag a set of chains through the outfield before the game to chase the rattlesnakes out of the outfield. [chuckles] And Lou would get in his cups, as he would do occasionally. And he used to say-he'd introduce himself. He says, "I'm Lou Watts-high ball-low ball pitcher and high ball drinker." He says, "I can throw a ball through a brick wall. My problem is I can't find the plate." [laughter]
TD: Well, we've heard about pitchers like that. And of course Lou when he retired from baseball wrote a couple of books.
SW: Which are-believe it or not, Tim, are the bibles of pitching.
TD: Yes, and he-I remember as a youngster he used to hit rocks in the driveway until he hit them so hard that they went into Morris Avenue.
SW: Ya.
TD: He had to slow down. [chuckles] But Lou's-Lou is one of the Watts people-
SW: One of the real characters of the Watts family. [laughs]
TD: Real characters. Well, you have a few-
SW: My uncle was a little unusual. My uncle, who was slightly hard of hearing, but also played the violin beautifully, and the only place he could practice was in the bathroom because the old Mountain Lakes bathrooms had the tile floor and the tile walls. And he could play in there because he got the resonance off the walls. [laughs]
TD: The resonance in there, right. And of course his father-in-law was a retired conductor.
SW: Yes, Mr. Hendricks.
TD: Hendrickson. And I think-I believe that your aunt played the violin as well [unclear].
SW: She played the viola.
TD: Oh, she played the viola and-
SW: Viola and the piano. And I can remember many times going in there and there would be-they would have string quartets playing in their living room. And my Cousin Lou-he was-he played the drums and the trombone and he was quite preeminent. He wrote a very good treatise on jazz music in the United States.
TD: Oh, ya. He was a jazz-
SW: Ya, he was a real jazz man.
TD: And he and Tom Bouchay and-
SW: Ya. Oh, ya.
TD: -some others were really into jazz. Tell me about the voice of the HERD. I want to make sure that I-
SW: Okay.
TD: -just wanted-when that started and how it started.
SW: Well, basically, it started-let's see, I'm trying to go back now. It started two years before Doug Wilkins came to Mountain Lakes as head coach. He was just his assistant coach. Let's see. My Lord. When was that? That was 33 years ago.
TD: Ya, he was teaching history, as I recall.
SW: He was-
TD: And then he was an assistant coach.
SW: Ya, an assistant coach and the coach was a guy named Al Clark and Al had played at Princeton under Charley Caldwell. And nobody understood the single wing formation because it was unique and new. So Clarky one day-ya, Clarky came to me and he said, "You know?" He said, "We play these games. We go into this strange single wing formation. Everybody's sitting in their stance, doesn't know what's going on." He said, "Did you ever think of doing like public address play by play?" And I said, "Gee, I don't know. I'll give it a try." So we started with a card table on a piece of plywood up on the bank and a public address system which was antique, to say the best. And then when Al Clark left Doug Wilkins took over and the HERD started. And HERD-a lot of people don't know what HERD means. It's four letters really-hustle, enthusiasm, reliability and desire. That's where HERD started. And the book that the kids would get before the season started, which laid out training rules and a lot of things, would have it written on the front-hustle, enthusiasm, reliability and desire. And somebody said, "HERD" and HERD it became. And they really didn't have a mascot. And then in 1981 I had one of my-I was in the advertising business-I had one of my artists design a-we wanted to do a logo for the helmets. And it was-it turned out to be-I said, "HERD." My artist said, "Oh, a herd of buffalo," and I said, "Okay, that's it." [laughs] And it became-and that's where the HERD came from.
TD: And it's on everybody's [unclear] now.
SW: Ya, ya. And last year-last season was my last season. And I must say for posterity's sake I will do one more game this year when we-our 50th reunion-that game, the Verona game at home. John Walters is going to take over for me as voice of the HERD. And-
TD: John was that all-American lacrosse player.
SW: John is big on lacrosse, ya.
TD: Ya. And we've had two all-Americans that I know of-lacrosse players in town.
SW: Oh, ya. Well, we-
TD: Dick Driver and-
SW: Ya. But actually we've had six or seven kids in our high school in the years that have been in scholastic all-Americans. Oh, and a bunch-I mean, last year the West Point team had five Mountain Lakes kids out of the 11 starting boys.
TD: How can you get that many appointed [chuckles] in the given four years?
SW: That's a good question. That I don't have any-
TD: Who knows who?
SW: Well, let's put it this way. They all know Bill Bradley real well.
TD: Right.
SW: [chuckles] He helps.
TD: Okay. Even though Mountain Lakes doesn't deliver the vote.
SW: Well, what can I tell you?
TD: [chuckles] Okay. Let's see. You played at University of Rhode Island.
SW: Ya, I played one year at Princeton in the Marine Corps V12 Program at Princeton and started there. And then when I-I got pulled out of Princeton because I had a specialty that the Marine Corps wanted and needed-hopefully, thought they were going to need. Thank God it was only needed once. I was a UDT; I was the frogman. And it would-I went into Okinawa and then we were pulled out of there and we were going into the island of Japan. And some people hear me say this and they wonder. But I say, "Thank God for the atomic bomb because we would have lost a half a million men going into Japan."
TD: I was there. I was one of those [unclear].
SW: Sat offshore waiting through the thing to happen too. Okay.
TD: But we-that's another story entirely. We-let's see-I guess you'd agree though that, based on what you said about Abe Smith-
SW: Ya.
TD: -that when I asked you who was the most memorable-
SW: Abe Smith.
TD: -in your memory. Abe Smith.
SW: No question. Abe Smith was probably-I had several people in my scholastic life. Anibel-
TD: Ya.
SW: Scofield.
TD: Ya.
SW: But I was never a real brain so Scofield was-but there were some other unusual people. Do you remember a woman who taught fifth-or was it third grade-third grade? Nelly Lofthouse.
TD: Yes, I had her in third grade.
SW: Who can forget Nelly?
TD: But she had a different color hair every year.
SW: Ya, every year it was [unclear]. [chuckles] When-the year that I was there it was bright blue when I had her in third grade. But I remember her just so much-very vivid in my mind.
TD: Well, she was a vivid person-
SW: Yes, she really was.
TD: -and lived to a very old age.
SW: Ya.
TD: In fact, I don't remember hearing about her dying yet. [chuckles]
SW: Ya. And then in high school, as I say, it was Anibel, Scofield, and Abe Smith and perhaps Dick Willing, and Dick Willing only because he was the track coach.
TD: Ya, he built the track.
SW: Ya, he coached the trackless wonders.
TD: What I-I want to warn the listeners that I don't know when we're going to run out of tape and-oh, I think we have a little more here.
SW: All right.
TD: I think we have enough to-
SW: I was afraid I would go on forever. [chuckles]
TD: Well, I want to make sure I get as much as I can. If we go back to the growing up process in Mountain Lakes, think about things that you might remember that we haven't touched on that would be of interest.
SW: Okay. I'll tell you what come-pops into my mind. There was a family named Hobby who lived on Morris Avenue. And the Hobby boys were absolutely the world's greatest log cabin builders going. And they had four-to my knowledge, at least four log cabins built out in Rattlesnake Meadow.
TD: Yes.
SW: There was the block house at Bubbling Springs. There was the log cabin at Deer Ridge and there were a couple of others out there. And I can remember as a kid, oh, my Lord, every summer I would disappear and I'd spend the summer out living in one of those log cabins.
TD: Yes. They were very, very handy people. And they had-also, they had horses and they had a pony cart, and the house they lived in was right at the base of the hill-
SW: Right next to my-
TD: -on the railroad track side.
SW: Right next to my Uncle Lou.
TD: Right next to the Lewellyn one.
SW: Ya, Lewellyn one and-
TD: They had a little stable, in fact.
SW: And also, little known that Mr. Hobby was the town bootlegger [chuckles] during the times-
TD: That's what he used the stable for-
SW: [laughs] Ya.
TD: But, of course, the-we passed a livestock law in town-
SW: Ya.
TD: -sometime in the early '30s so horses had to go.
SW: Horses had to go and my grandmother, who raised chickens at Briarcliff Road, they had to go.
TD: Chickens had to go.
SW: Chickens had to go.
TD: There was a lot of consternation. I remember that the Steels had a pony. They lived at the corner of Duprane and Forest and there were a few other people-
SW: Remember the Hills who lived at the top of Pollard Road who used to occasionally have an elephant staked out in their yard?
TD: I [unclear] know if they had more than one elephant.
SW: Ya.
TD: They had at one point after elephants had to leave town-they had the elephants tethered out across from 46 where the Faithful Source is.
SW: Oh, ya.
TD: I don't know whether you remember that but it seems to me it was in the summertime when the elephants should have been on tour. But in any event, regardless of the season, the elephants trumpeted. The elephants trumpeted and they would-when the trains went by they would trumpet. And they would trumpet at other times I guess. And there they were caught in that little [unclear] between-
SW: Ya.
TD: -Route 46 and the railroad tracks making all that jungle racket.
SW: Near where the old lumber mill was.
TD: Ya, the lumber mill-
SW: The lumber mill that-
TD: -out there, right.
SW: -carved up all this chestnut here in Mountain Lakes.
TD: That's right. That lumber mill lasted until after 1935. I mean, not-
SW: Ya.
TD: The lumber mill was falling apart.
SW: Ya, it was a-ya. I can remember that. Oh, my Lord, ya.
TD: Let's see. Was there any other fire that you remember that was [unclear] here?
SW: Well, there was a fire on-I believe it was on Laurel Hill Road just down from you here where-ya.
TD: That was Lookout.
SW: Oh, that was Lookout. That house burned right-
TD: Ya.
SW: -also to the ground. That was-they used to make fun of the fire department that we saved foundations. On that one we didn't even save the foundation, [chuckles] because it collapsed inside and the foundation fell outward.
TD: I remember that.
SW: Ya, and that house was totally rebuilt up there. I think the ones you remember-I do remember the Fusee fire-one of the many Fusee fires. [chuckles]
TD: Ya, they always seemed to be having a fire.
SW: They were always having a fire down there. And-but being fire chief, I will never forget the Wilson School fire. You know, that was-of course, to the old timers that's St. John's School but-
TD: St. John's School?
SW: Ya.
TD: I will add one for your memory bank, which you didn't attend, and that was the burning of the Inn-
SW: Oh, ya.
TD: -out on-
SW: When the Mountain Lakes Inn went up, ya.
TD: [unclear] my father was on the fire department at the time. And my mother was up there watching these guys climb all over the building. Of course, it was lost because, number one, there was a two-inch main and, number two, it was too far to the hydrant.
SW: Oh, ya. They got zero water pressure probably.
TD: And they lost-they were calling for water and all they got was a drip. There was no way of putting that fire out.
SW: It was sort of stand back and let it burn.
TD: The other one that you didn't see, Skip, which is worth mentioning, is the club fire-
SW: Oh, ya. Well-
TD: -[unclear] in 1928.
SW: That, of course, is a tradition in our family because my mother was chairman of the dance-of the entertainment committee.
TD: And she moved-
SW: And she moved into the Oddfellows Hall in Boonton. And, of course, the great story is that my father was walking up the hill with a gallon of Mr. Hobby's best in his-in each hand. And he slipped and fell and went down and all he ended up was the two little glass rings. [laughs] It almost ruined their evening. But he got back in his Stutz Bearcat and drove back down to Mr. Hobby's and got two more gallons of booze. [chuckles]
TD: I'm glad you mentioned the Stutz Bearcat.
SW: Oh, ya.
TD: [unclear] getting that in.
SW: My father had a Stutz-had a red Stutz Bearcat.
TD: I want to mention that Skip's mother, who took the dance to the Oddfellows Hall in Boonton still survives and-
SW: Yes, she does.
TD: -this is 1994. And I think that's something. But to go back to her dance, Bob Thompson and I-I was spending the night at the Thompsons because my parents had plans for New Year's Eve. We sat on the third floor of his house looking out-
SW: Oh, of course. Right across the lake there, ya.
TD: -and watched the club burn on New Years Eve, 1928 and it was some-one heck of a fire.
SW: Another unforgettable person in my life, I will tell you, you spoke of, Millie Thompson, who was affectionately known to the kids who never would say it in front of her as Tillie Thompson who ran the library like Stalag 17 [chuckles] during, like, my high school tenure.
TD: She had a very strong hand-
SW: Oh, ya.
TD: -and always did. She did not believe in-let's put it this way, she was most direct.
SW: Hi. Nancy Delchamps: [unclear].
SW: Oh.
TD: And you're on tape now, Nancy.
SW: Okay, you're on tape, Nancy.
TD: But she was quite-she lost her son-
SW: Ya.
TD: -December 7th [unclear].
SW: Ya, and she never got over that.
TD: She never got over it.
SW: Never, ever got over it.
TD: And all of us who knew her before and after, because she was different, but she was strong willed from the start.
SW: She never was much of what I called a gentle soul. [laughs]
TD: [several words unclear]
SW: I will never forget, as long as I live, Joe Mola sitting in the library talking. And she had told him rather loudly several times that he should stop talking and he just kept right on talking. She walked over and bagged him and grabbed him by the top of his ears and picked him right out of his chair. [laughs]
TD: Now, Joe wasn't that-
SW: Joe was never [unclear].
TD: I'm surprised-well, she did do the ear trick, I think, a couple of other times.
SW: Ya, she did it a lot.
TD: Ya, she made wonderful cookies though.
SW: Oh, ya. Ya.
TD: She made good cookies.
SW: Well, I somehow-she liked me and I was lucky. I could go back in the back behind the desk in that little room and work on the Dewey Decimal System. And to this day, that's something that I remember, working on the Dewey Decimal System. So, yes, she was another one of my unforgettable characters. [chuckles]
TD: I think she belonged to all of us.
SW: Ya.
TD: Now, just a minute. Let's [unclear]. For the past hour we've been chatting with Skip Watts about his growing up in Mountain Lakes and some of the noteworthy events and people that he's met in the process and some of the things that he's done, some of the things that he shouldn't have done probably too.
SW: [chuckles] Ya.
TD: And I'd like to invite him now in the last stretch of tape to perhaps summarize and give us some final thoughts before we turn it off. Skip.
SW: I think Mountain Lakes is probably the most unique community, or at least a unique community in the United States. While originally it was designed as a community for people to sort of get out of the city type thing, it has become in itself a hub. The thing that I've always loved about Mountain Lakes is that everybody knows everybody. Sometimes it's not too good. They know everybody's business. But everybody knows everybody and it's friendly, and it's-of course, nowhere can you find houses like the Mountain Lakes stucco barns, as we tend to call them, and as I've always called them, neo-Depression architecture. [laughs] They-houses are big. They spawned families. Really, it was a family-oriented community-always been a family-oriented community also aimed at the kids. There was always something for the kids to do. And, you know, we had-Mountain Lakes had their share of wild ones. I was probably among them. And-but it was never serious; it was mischief more than crime, if you know what I mean. And that's it. Mountain Lakes will-I'm leaving and I'm leaving within a week. But I will tell you, Mountain Lakes will remain in my heart and in my mind forever. I'll never forget it.
TD: Thank you very much, Skip.
SW: Thank you, Tim. Thank you.
TD: We really appreciate-

End of Interview

Transcribed by Tapescribe, University of Connecticut at Storrs, 2003, edited by Margarethe P. Laurenzi, coordinator, Oral History Project of the Historic Preservation Committee of Mountain Lakes, October 2003, with assistance from Jackie Burkett, Borough Archivist.



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