Voices of the Past Record

Historic Preservation Committee

Oral History -- Ruth Watts

Interview with Ruth Watts for the Historic Preservation Committee of Mountain Lakes, New Jersey, December 10, 1995. The interviewer is unknown and is indicated below as "I".

I:	-start by saying that I'm interviewing Ruth Watts today for the Historic Preservation Committee's Oral History Program. And what I'm going to do is ask you just some background questions to start with. So will you tell me when and where you were born?
RW:	I was born in Paterson, New Jersey in 1898 and we moved to Mountain Lakes in December, 1911. We had lived on a farm in [unclear] during the summer months and my mother was an explorer. So we used to drive up to Mountain Lakes and there were no lakes then. It was just simply a great big swamp where they cut down the chestnut trees, which they used for the paneling in practically every house in Mountain Lakes. Also, Mr. Hapgood imported about 50 Italian families from Italy who built all the foundations out of the stone [unclear]. And they all lived in a barracks out by the dam in the big [unclear].
I:	So at the time they-the forms that were-had been put in-that the-and they were still-the lakes were still forming at that time.
RW:	Oh, ya. And they had to wait for a week or so-the horses could get in on the ice and pull out the stumps. We had no roads and of course no electric lights. [unclear]. But when we moved we had-two teams of horses brought our furniture down from the boulevard. And they had to carry them up from the boulevard to [unclear] Road. So we kept the movers overnight.
I:	So your first house was on Laurel Hill Road?
RW:	Ya.
I:	And were you the first family in Mountain Lakes?
RW:	No, there were four families there when we got there.
I:	Okay. Now, you had a house that was a-did the yard go all the way down to the boulevard then?
RW:	And we also owned a lot across the boulevard on the lake with a boathouse.
I:	And so you had a-is that area now-that another house [unclear] or where you were [unclear]?
RW:	The Boulevard, ya.
I:	Ya.
RW:	But not up on Laurel Hill.
I:	Right.
RW:	We still [several words unclear].
I:	Okay. So you had a yard that was probably two or three building lots.
RW:	Oh, ya.
I:	And then-but you also had a boathouse on the lake.
RW:	Ya.
I:	Okay. So you were pioneers.
RW:	[chuckles] Ya, we were. Ya. We were the only people on the Laurel Hill side of the boulevard. The other four families were on-you know, on the Lake Drive side. We were [unclear]. Ya, we were the only ones on the Laurel Hill side.
I:	So then, like, did you-for example, if you wanted to go shopping, where would you go shopping?
RW:	We would go shopping in Boonton.
I:	Boonton?
RW:	Ya.
I:	Was there any transportation?
RW:	Not in the beginning but we'd only been there about a year when they put in the trolley car, which we [several words unclear] trolley car. And my father would commute to New York by [unclear].
I:	He took the train-
RW:	Yes.
I:	-through there? So the train didn't go through Mountain Lakes at the time?
RW:	Not then, no.
I:	Okay. And-but-so you did all your-there was no stores in Mountain Lakes itself?
RW:	Oh, none.
I:	Ya. Now, what about-and so you moved here when you were-there was a school [unclear]?
RW:	Ya, the first school was on Larchdell [unclear]. And there were 11 of us in the school starting with kindergarten and going up to the sixth grade. When you got through the sixth grade you had to go to Boonton at school.
I:	Oh, really?
RW:	Then after my father became mayor, he bought two buses and we were sent to [unclear] high school.
I:	Okay, and your father's name was-
RW:	William R. Doreums.
I:	Okay, and was he-his tenure, was he the first mayor?
RW:	Yes.
I:	Okay. So we're sort of getting some-the history of how-
RW:	[unclear]. And they called him judge. He was [unclear] people. But that house burned down. The original house burned down and the house that's there now is built on the same foundation as the original one.
I:	Oh, is that right? So it's not the-now, was it-was-while the house was a Hapgood house-
RW:	Oh, yes.
I:	So-what was the one that replaced it? What was that like? Was that-
RW:	[several words unclear] the one that's there now, that was privately built.
I:	But was it the same as the Hapgood's [unclear]?
RW:	Oh, not at all.
I:	Oh, it's not.
RW:	It has pillars. It's not-it's almost like a southern mansion. [unclear].
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	And my mother had a picture window put in. In 1916 nobody had heard of a picture window, and of course it wasn't thermal glass. It was just plain [unclear] glass.
I:	I see. So that was the first house built that wasn't-didn't follow the Hapgood style then. It was more of that southern mansion style.
RW:	Ya, exactly.
I:	Mm-hmm-okay.
RW:	Now, we had a barn and nobody in Mountain Lakes had a car. Everybody had horses. Well, we had two horses, one to ride and one to hitch up to the surrey.
I:	So, if you went [unclear]-but you also had the trolley too, I guess.
RW:	Well, eventually, ya, but not in the beginning.
I:	So you-now, your father was the first mayor.
RW:	Yes.
I:	Now, just-can you give me some history? Was there some-a change in government, the type of government?
RW:	There was no government.
I:	Okay.
RW:	[several words unclear]. We used to go to [unclear] to meetings [unclear]. We carried [unclear]. See, weren't incorporated until he became mayor after Mountain Lakes was incorporated.
I:	Okay. Now, do you remember which year that was that he became the mayor?
RW:	It probably was about 1915 [sic].
I:	Oh, okay. So the town was incorporated like fairly early in history?
RW:	Ya.
I:	Okay. All right. Now, up to that time you say [several words unclear]-
RW:	There was no government in Mountain Lakes.
I:	Ya.
RW:	But he represented Mountain Lakes in these get-togethers [several words unclear] was monthly.
I:	And was there a [unclear] council at that time?
RW:	No, nothing.
I:	Nothing. Just-he was just-
RW:	We just existed, yes.
I:	But when he became the mayor was there a council then or was it just sort of-you just sort of-
RW:	No, there was-
I:	-[unclear] everything himself?
RW:	[unclear] a year later or something. In the beginning, you see, it was all very primitive. There were no people [several words unclear] the Mountain Lakes railroad station. There's a picture in 1912. There's very young people sitting around a table. It was on the [unclear] one of the first-not a lot of people were living in Mountain Lakes in 1912 [unclear].
I:	So was there-I guess after that though there was quite a few more people that lived here.
RW:	Not too many.
I:	Ya. So is it a-having very slow growth to your town?
RW:	Well, after a few years it became-everybody knew Mountain Lakes because they called Mortgage Lakes, because you could come in and put down $500 on a house and move in.
I:	I see.
RW:	And then after you moved in here [several words unclear] passed out the mail in [unclear].
I:	So then it was kind of a slow [unclear].
RW:	Yes. Well, there weren't enough people though really [unclear] much.
I:	Well, by this-was it a town that people had not heard about? Was that one of the-
RW:	Oh, ya. They hadn't heard about it.
I:	Ya.
RW:	Mr. Hapgood had built a place similar to Mountain Lakes around Long Island, and [several words unclear] contractor here. And they came on and they climbed a tree and looked over the situation, and then Hapgood bought it [unclear].
I:	So-but it was still-now, how did most people find out about Mountain Lakes, just through word of mouth or-
RW:	Word of mouth.
I:	Uh-huh. Now, at the time most of the people were working in New York City?
RW:	Yes, all of them.
I:	Okay.
RW:	Ya.
I:	So it was a community-
RW:	One of the first things [unclear] built was the railroad station so people could commute.
I:	[several words unclear]. But how would-so [several words unclear] would walk to the railroad station?
RW:	Ya. They had horses, you see.
I:	Ya.
RW:	Everybody had a horse.
I:	Everyone had a horse.
RW:	Or you could walk. In the winter my father used to walk across the lake on the ice.
I:	Oh, okay. [chuckles] And you said that you were sort of in the first school [unclear].
RW:	That was the only one.
I:	And that was on-
RW:	Larchdell Way.
I:	Uh-huh. So is that-I guess that the school building was over there then. Was that-
RW:	It was a house.
I:	Oh, it was a house.
RW:	Ya, and I think Mrs. Browning bought the house eventually. : I see. Okay. And then after that what was the next school that was built?
RW:	[several words unclear] went to the sixth grade when we went to Boonton. Then after that we went [unclear] High School [several words unclear].
I:	Okay. Did you get-you had, what-[unclear] there?
RW:	I never went to school in Mountain Lakes so I don't know really.
I:	Okay.
RW:	It had school at one time and a grocery store-Yaccarino's [unclear] there. In the interim just a [unclear] and they moved. But, see, I went to school-I left [unclear] and went to Boonton and then to [unclear] and from [unclear] I was sent to boarding school [unclear]. So I graduated from boarding school [unclear].
I:	Ya. So you'd been-this was before [unclear] School was built, I guess. [several words unclear].
RW:	Yes.
I:	Now, you mentioned a market. There was a market in town or-
RW:	Yes, the [unclear]-well, it's still there.
I:	Is it?
RW:	Called the [unclear].
I:	[several words unclear]
RW:	Yaccarino.
I:	Yaccarino's?
RW:	Ya.
I:	So that became the-
RW:	And they would deliver groceries.
I:	I see. That was probably very helpful.
RW:	Oh, ya. [chuckles]
I:	Were there sort of dirt roads at the time?
RW:	All dirt roads, no [unclear] roads but no electric light poles. When you went around Mountain Lakes you carried a lantern.
I:	There was electricity in the homes.
RW:	Oh, yes.
I:	Ya, ya. Good. Now, once you got out of your house you were-had a dirt road. It would-may be muddy in the winter.
RW:	Oh, all the time. Muddy [several words unclear].
I:	So what-so where do you-did you stay-you said you went away to boarding school.
RW:	Yes.
I:	And then did you come back to Mountain Lakes after that?
RW:	Ya, I graduated down there.
I:	Ya.
RW:	And then I came back to Mountain Lakes.
I:	And then where-when you came back to Mountain Lakes, where did you live then?
RW:	We lived on Laurel Hill Road [unclear].
I:	You still [unclear]-
RW:	I was only 16 at that-17-
I:	Okay. So that was where you lived-
RW:	Until I got married.
I:	Okay. And then where did you-
RW:	In [unclear]. My husband's mother owned a home on Cobb Road. We went to live there and after we left Cobb Road we moved to Shore Road where we bought that house.
I:	Mm-hmm, okay.
RW:	And we lived there until we [several words unclear] on a 58 acre [unclear]-58 acres of apple trees. And my name was Doremus, which is strange because it's my maiden name. We lived there for three years.
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	And then we came back [unclear] took over my father's house.
I:	Oh, I see. So why did you go to Towaco? How did you happen to go over there for awhile? Was there any particular reason?
RW:	Everybody knew about Towaco because they had all kinds of orchards, peach and apples and everything and [unclear]. We had a [unclear] and Doremus [unclear] about us in Mountain Lakes. And that's how we happened to go there.
I:	I see. So at the time there was still a lot of orchards and-
RW:	Oh, [several words unclear].
I:	Mm-hmm. Still there, huh? What were some of the other things you remember about growing up in Mountain Lakes? For example, a social life, was there-
RW:	Well, of course, everybody knew everybody because there were so few people. And then my father started the Mountain Lakes [unclear]. He started the community church, and the reason for that was [unclear] because there were so few people there.
I:	And so he started the Mountain Lakes Club.
RW:	Yes, 1915.
I:	Okay. So that was started fairly-so was there-was it [unclear] club at the time?
RW:	It was built but that one also burned down. The one that's there now was built in 1926. I was chairman of the entertainment committee. And it burned down New Year's Eve.
I:	Is that right? Was it-were people in the club or was it after-
RW:	It was supposed to be-I was [unclear] at dinner and it burned down while they were cooking [several words unclear].
I:	Is that right?
RW:	And it burned down [unclear]. I had to call every member of the-people [unclear] belonged to the club, [unclear] tried to find another place for the dance.
I:	Oh, boy. So that was-now, was that building built as sort of a-the original building, was that built in any particular architectural style?
RW:	It was wood, the whole building-
I:	Oh, it was wooden.
RW:	-with a great big front porch-
I:	Ya?
RW:	-faced the lake. [several words unclear] [chuckles]
I:	So it was a big wooden building.
RW:	Yes.
I:	And was it like-I mean, was it in any particular style-
RW:	No,
I:	-the building, or was-
RW:	[unclear].
I:	Ya, okay.
RW:	However, they tried to copy the new one from pictures that I had of the old.
I:	Oh-
RW:	And they got them of the outside [several words unclear] much like inside.
I:	I see. I've sort of wondered about the new building [unclear]. So they were trying to copy the old-
RW:	Ya, vaguely, yes. They wanted the contour to look like the old.
I:	[unclear].
RW:	[unclear] all stucco.
I:	That is-was the other one larger?
RW:	No.
I:	Oh, okay.
RW:	About the same size.
I:	I see. So how long did it take to build the new building? Was that something [unclear]?
RW:	I have no idea but I would imagine a couple years, at least.
I:	Ya. Do you remember where Lake Drive School was built close to the club?
RW:	I really don't remember. I think I was in boarding school when it happened.
I:	[several words unclear]
RW:	But my son went there and graduated from there [unclear] high school and later he graduated there at the high school. But he went straight from kindergarten.
I:	I see. You said your father founded the community church.
RW:	Yes.
I:	Okay. So that was-when was that approximately?
RW:	[unclear]
I:	That was probably-was that sort of something that was done in [unclear] years?
RW:	It was probably fairly-I think before I went to boarding school so it must have been around '14 or '15, something like that.
I:	But it was-the original building was this-the one's that's there now, the stone building? That's a very nice building.
RW:	Oh, they wanted to tear it down and my son raised cane. They didn't [several words unclear] the kind of building [unclear] quite a pretty building.
I:	Oh, it is.
RW:	[several words unclear].
I:	That's right. That sort of thing is distinctive about the community church and the Lake Drive School.
RW:	And the railroad station.
I:	Right. That's right, ya.
RW:	Ya.
I:	So at one time they told you they wanted to tear it down, the community church-
RW:	[several words unclear] to tear it down. The town did.
I:	Ya.
RW:	But that [several words unclear].
I:	So that's right. Were they thinking about tearing down Lake Drive school too [several words unclear]? Did you say they were-
RW:	The only one that [unclear].
I:	Ya. Ya, because-that's right. It's used for deaf children now and they have a very successful program.
RW:	I think they wanted to tear it down when they put up that new high school.
I:	Mm-hmm. I see.
RW:	[several words unclear] don't you do that.
I:	Oh, ya. Were they thinking of putting the high school at [unclear]?
RW:	No.
I:	Oh, okay. Do you remember [unclear] controversy regarding the new high school?
RW:	No.
I:	Okay-
RW:	I was too-I was away so much [unclear].
I:	Ya, all right.
RW:	I just came back [unclear]-
I:	Right.
RW:	-vacations.
I:	Did-I think [several words unclear].
RW:	Ya, you're right.
I:	Ya.
RW:	Yes. But then they had all the property over here on Briarcliff Road [several words unclear].
I:	Right.
RW:	So they just [unclear]. And then [several words unclear] in kindergarten and everything. And everything in there were small and [unclear] the bathrooms and everything. And then they built the high school.
I:	Really?
RW:	Ya.
I:	Any other social events-you were connected with the Mountain Lakes Club.
RW:	Yes.
I:	And that was the primary social-
RW:	Oh, yes.
I:	-in-
RW:	It was the only place, really.
I:	Did you have a-every year you have a big Fourth of July party?
RW:	Oh, ya, My father started that and he started the fireworks.
I:	Oh, he did? So that's [unclear]. That tradition is still-
RW:	Oh, ya. But they tried to stop it years ago and I wrote to the town council and told them that my father had started [unclear] a tradition in Mountain Lakes and should be kept up. [chuckles] [several words unclear] they called me up and they said, "We can't afford it. We can't collect enough money." So I said, "I'll tell you what I'll do. Every year I'll give you $25 to start it." So I went and [several words unclear]. [laughter]
I:	That's still-works that way [unclear] contributions.
RW:	Oh, ya. I guess so.
I:	It seems to work okay.
RW:	[several words unclear].
I:	Ya, [several words unclear] he had the idea of having the sparklers around [unclear], you know that?
RW:	Oh, ya. And in those days, of course, they weren't [unclear]. And they'd have George Washington crossing the Delaware.
I:	Oh, really?
RW:	[sentence unclear]
I:	Oh, I see. Okay. Ya, so [unclear] much more [unclear].
RW:	Well, they had to cut down on it. You know, those things are too expensive. And my son, he used to-he [several words unclear]. [several sentences unclear].
I:	[unclear].
RW:	Do you know, across from [unclear] all those trees and bushes down there they had two [several words unclear] trees. [sentence unclear]
I:	[unclear]. Now, when you say your son you're referring to Skip.
RW:	Yes.
I:	Right. So did you use the lake a lot then for recreation then?
RW:	Oh, we lived on the lake and the canoe. We had canoes and rowboats and-
I:	Ya.
RW:	-we lived on the lake.
I:	[unclear]-it didn't take too long to be [unclear]-you know, to start out as a [unclear].
RW:	[several words unclear] and Mountain Lakes cleaned out all these stumps. [several words unclear] springs. It didn't take too long. I remember three [several words unclear]. They are also artificial lakes. And where I lived on Pocono Road was originally an icehouse, and a railroad went right through my back yard.
I:	Oh, really?
RW:	They used to cut the ice and [unclear] railroad cars and [unclear] up to [unclear].
I:	So it started out as an ice-you know, [unclear].
RW:	There were no houses anywhere.
I:	Oh, okay. So that was the first house and that was-started out as-was part of a-[several words unclear] icehouses?
RW:	It was the site of an icehouse.
I:	Oh, okay. And there was a railroad-or where did this railroad track go, to Boonton?
RW:	[unclear].
I:	Oh.
RW:	It went to [unclear] and then out onto Dilworth.
I:	Oh, I see. And that was a big industry? The ice industry?
RW:	[sentence unclear]
I:	Ya. So that was-did the [unclear] expand then over to that area of [unclear] lakes?
RW:	As I said, on Mountain Lake there were no houses at all.
I:	Right.
RW:	None.
I:	And so that was like a-have a different period of-
RW:	Oh, ya.
I:	-[several words unclear]
RW:	And it happened [unclear] around-well, we lived on Shore Road. We were one of the few houses. There were no houses on the opposite side of Mountain Lake at all, just on the Shore Road side.
I:	Okay. But the house that you lived in, was that-that was-the one on Pocono [unclear]-
RW:	Built much later and privately.
I:	Ya. So that was a-sort of a second stage in the expansion of Mountain Lakes was moving over there behind those three lakes?
RW:	Well, [unclear].
I:	Ya.
RW:	[several words unclear]. I mean, they didn't concentrate on like-on Pocono Road. They just built the [unclear]. They bought the land for practically nothing. And the town-on the [several words unclear] the empty [unclear] around it.
I:	So there was-that was Birchwood Lake bought at the same time then as-
RW:	All of them, ya.
I:	Ya, and that was-
RW:	No houses on Birchwood.
I:	Right. Now, how did that-was your-[unclear]-did their houses [several words unclear]?
RW:	No.
I:	Okay, that was-[several words unclear]. Okay. But Crystal Lake is-has got houses on it.
RW:	Oh, yes. That's the area [unclear] the last 20 years [unclear].
I:	Ya. Well, there were a couple-
RW:	Because the house I lived in-when I moved in it had been built for 16 years and I lived there 25 years [several words unclear] 40 years.
I:	Are there any other-so your father was the first mayor in town. Also, there was an expansion of the town. Now, was that-that was sort of another decision by the local government to-
RW:	No, not-well, a lot of them were for sale and [several words unclear]. [sentence unclear]. And then after that [several words unclear] growth. And [unclear] started building houses there.
I:	Who was-did you remember Mr. Hapgood?
RW:	Oh, of course. I used to baby sit for his children.
I:	Okay.
RW:	Ya. [chuckles]
I:	So where was he [unclear]?
RW:	He would-of course, we knew him very well because we [unclear]. And we used to have him for dinner because he was out [several words unclear]. He smoked a great big cigar. He was a rough kind of a guy. However, he got [unclear] he used to mortgage houses that were built and that's when he went broke.
I:	I see. So he was a-I guess he had a [unclear]. He was sort of like a developer [unclear].
RW:	He was a developer. He developed Shoreham. Shoreham-he developed that community [several words unclear].
I:	Did he get the idea that-well, where did he get his architectural data, because he wasn't just putting up houses. He was [unclear]-
RW:	[several words unclear] the [unclear] deal. He carried-he had four house plans. And he would turn them upside down, back [unclear]. And practically every house in Mountain Lakes is just one of four building plans.
I:	Uh-huh. But his first development was [unclear] on Long Island.
RW:	Yes.
I:	And do you know where he got the idea of building houses of this style or-
RW:	I have no idea.
I:	Ya.
RW:	I was only a kid then. [unclear] a lot of-
I:	Okay. He was quite a character, I guess.
RW:	Oh, he was [unclear].
I:	But he had his idea though to build houses that were sort of-
RW:	Ya.
I:	-styled in a-
RW:	Yes, as I said, he took the idea from the Shoreham, the same plans [several words unclear] Shoreham.
I:	And then so-and he was-how many years was he here then? He started here about 1911?
RW:	Ya, '10.
I:	1910. Then your-I guess there are about 500 Hapgood homes [several words unclear]. [several words unclear] or-
RW:	Probably.
I:	Now, was he here during all that time?
RW:	No.
I:	Oh. [chuckles]
RW:	He [several words unclear] before that.
I:	Okay.
RW:	That's when he had to sell a lot of it, where they took him over, really.
I:	Ya. Well, were the houses all-they weren't all built by then, were they, or-
RW:	Well, Belhall came in and carried out the same idea of the houses that were in Mountain Lakes.
I:	But they weren't building Hapgood houses.
RW:	No.
I:	They were building [unclear].
RW:	But they copied the houses that were already there, the general idea.
I:	[unclear]. Okay. So you see Mr. Hapgood for many-for very many years then? Did he-I guess he disappeared then. Is that-
RW:	Well, he did.
I:	Where [unclear]-
RW:	He went back to Shoreham. He had a beautiful wife and two beautiful children. [end of side 1, tape 1]
I:	-he left the country or do you know whether he [unclear]-
RW:	[unclear].
I:	Maybe-this is just sort of a-
RW:	We never heard about it.
I:	He just-as far as you know, he just went back to Shoreham.
RW:	Ya.
I:	Tried to work out things with the banks.
RW:	I guess so.
I:	He went into bankruptcy, I guess. So, now were there-there were some other people also involved in the development. You said there was a-the man who came out here with-
RW:	Belhall.
I:	Okay, Belhall. Now, how long was Belhall-
RW:	Well, I don't know. They came in and they just stayed there [unclear]-
I:	Ya.
RW:	-and sold all the houses they wanted to, I guess. And then they got out [unclear].
I:	Were they part-I mean, were they people who lived in Mountain Lakes?
RW:	No.
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	A development company.
I:	Okay. They were just-they were in it for a few years and then-
RW:	They bought him out cheap, of course, because he was so in debt.
I:	Ya, uh-huh.
RW:	Mr. Hapgood had a swimming pool on his property and everybody thought he'd gone absolutely mad having a swimming pool there. But he wanted to show that he was a little above the rest of us. [chuckles]
I:	I see. Where did he live?
RW:	On the Boulevard.
I:	Okay.
RW:	About-I don't know the name of the street. But the church is here and then there's a road [unclear] on the other side.
I:	Oh, I see. He's right across from the-
RW:	Almost-you know where they've been cutting down all those trees.
I:	Right. That was his house. It had a swimming pool.
RW:	I don't know whether it's still there. Probably not.
I:	But-so then at the time there were some other roads that were put in, you know, besides Upper Hill-
RW:	Yes.
I:	-from-
RW:	Tower Hill.
I:	Right.
RW:	Yes.
I:	Ya.
RW:	And see, then they put in the artesian wells up on the top.
I:	Really?
RW:	That's where we got all our water. It's really wonderful water. We never ran short. We never had to stop, you know, watering lawns.
I:	Ya. So that's right. And they're still-I guess they're still using the wells.
RW:	Oh, ya.
I:	So-but-well, before Hapgood left all those roads were put in.
RW:	Not all.
I:	Oh, okay.
RW:	Most.
I:	Ya, ya.
RW:	And then of course then there were electric light poles and [several words unclear]. [several words unclear] to see it really start to develop. And as I said, he used to mortgage houses [several words unclear]. The banks finally caught up to him. [chuckles]
I:	Well, the other story they tell is that some of the houses have two front doors. Is that-have you heard this story where they have-some of the houses look like they've got a door along-on both sides, a front door.
RW:	I never heard of it.
I:	And the story is they used to take a [unclear]-on one street take-a door there and then another street-
RW:	That's very possible [laughs] but right up his alley, yes.
I:	Any other interesting people who you think of who were in Mountain Lakes?
RW:	Well, Kelly Fredericks, the actress, lived up on Laurel Hill Road and [unclear] lived up here. And-but they didn't last long [unclear]. There wasn't enough social life for them.
I:	I see.
RW:	[chuckles] We were just country people, you know. And [unclear] wrote many, many books about [several words unclear]. He wrote a lot of books [unclear].
I:	Oh, is that right? Well, you sound like it does-the people like that-the movie star types didn't stay very long.
RW:	They didn't last because they lived like Kennedy. We had no nightclubs or anything. The closest was New York, of course.
I:	Mm-hmm. It was kind of a-I guess it was more of a rustic little setting-
RW:	Oh, yes.
I:	-than they were used to.
RW:	It was what you would call a rural town is what it was.
I:	Mm-hmm. Now, it started out as a-it started out as a community-
RW:	Ya.
I:	-where you-
RW:	They called it a park, you know. In those days they called it a park. And that's when, you see-that was when in the very beginning they said that there'd be no commercial [unclear] in Mountain Lakes. [several words unclear]
I:	How did that-I guess [unclear] Lake got started because of the [unclear].
RW:	Oh, yes.
I:	And then, like, there was a gas station.
RW:	Behind them, ya. That was the first gas station [several words unclear]. That's been there for I don't know how many years.
I:	Well, that's the guy-[unclear] started building too. That gas-well, the gas station back there.
RW:	Like a [unclear].
I:	Mm-hmm. So that was the first gas station.
RW:	Ya.
I:	When did cars start to be used?
RW:	My mother had the first car in Mountain Lakes in 1912 and there's a picture in the library of my mother and the trolley car-but I mean, my mother's car and the trolley car posing together.
I:	What kind of car did she have? Do you remember?
RW:	I have no idea. I think it was a [unclear]. It looked like a box on wheels. And my mother was a pioneer. She drove a million miles by herself. She crossed the country 24 times alone.
I:	Is that right?
RW:	She went around the periphery of the United States before the [unclear] highway was finished. And they used to telegraph ahead to the next town and they would put her in jail overnight so she wouldn't get hurt.
I:	[chuckles]
RW:	She was a pioneer.
I:	So she did a lot of driving and you say she drove across-
RW:	A million miles is a lot of driving.
I:	Did she drive just all the different routes she could find to go from one [unclear]?
RW:	I suppose so.
I:	So when-did she do this in the summertime or-
RW:	She did it whenever she felt like it.
I:	I see. She just-
RW:	But when she was 89 years old my son was down in St. Petersburg, Florida. And we were [several words unclear]. She said to us to one morning, "You children are going to have to find your way home. I'm leaving for California." At 89 and she drove from St. Petersburg to California by herself at-she was a pioneer.
I:	Ya. How did she get [unclear] automobile [unclear]. I guess [unclear] adventurer's [unclear].
RW:	She was brought up out west. Her father helped to lay the railroads out west. She lived in a boxcar and all her friends were Indians. [unclear] she finally was sent east to stay with an aunt. And she learned the Morse code. And she could-[unclear] Morse code.
I:	So do you remember-well, what about your father? Was he-he was-
RW:	He was a comptroller [unclear].
I:	Oh, I see. [unclear]-well, he always worked in New York City?
RW:	Always.
I:	Ya. But he also was interested in local, you know, things.
RW:	Well, as I said, he was only interested because there wasn't anybody else.
I:	Okay.
RW:	When you've got four families, [chuckles] you don't have much choice.
I:	Uh-huh. Do you remember any other particular events? You said you had this-the Fourth of July was a [unclear]-
RW:	That was a big one.
I:	Were there other big social events during the year? What about Halloween? Were there any Halloween-
RW:	No.
I:	-dances or anything like that because-
RW:	Well, at the Mountain Lakes Club [unclear], like New Year's Eve.
I:	Ya. I saw a picture of-that was from one of the first years. It was a picture of the Mountain Lakes Club, and it was a big party and I think it was [unclear].
RW:	[several words unclear]
I:	Ya, there was a Fourth of July party. That was the main event.
RW:	Oh, that was a big deal.
I:	And then there was a-
RW:	Well, you see, everybody in Mountain Lakes went there. There was nowhere else to go. So we all went there.
I:	And I guess it wasn't that easy to get from one place to another. I mean, you had-local, you had a horse but-
RW:	Ya, you know-but you could drive with a horse. It had-I mean, for instance, you'd go to an affair in Morristown-
I:	Ya.
RW:	That was a little too far away.
I:	Uh-huh.
RW:	Ya.
I:	Was there quite an elaborate trolley system?
RW:	No.
I:	There wasn't? Or it took too long to get somewhere on trolley or-
RW:	Well, the trolley went from Mountain Lakes to Denville, and then from Denville it went to Dover. That was it.
I:	So there was a sort of a limit as to how much traveling you could do.
RW:	Ya.
I:	Ya.
RW:	And, you know, of course it was very informal. And after we got married we lived on Shore Road. The motorman used to blow his whistle by Pocono Road and my [unclear] would go out the back door with a cup of coffee and the motorman would get out. [chuckles] Really informal.
I:	Right. So they stopped-
RW:	Anywhere. Anywhere. Ya, you see, and there again, we were all very interested in each other's [unclear] because there were so few of us.
I:	Who were some of the people you remember [unclear]?
RW:	Well, [unclear] Houstons and Galloways and [unclear]. That's all I remember [unclear]. There was one other family and I cannot [unclear] who they were.
I:	Now, these were all-these people at the same time or-
RW:	They came about like we did.
I:	They were kind of pioneer types?
RW:	Ya.
I:	Ya, they were-
RW:	And they had the nerve-because I-oh, of course, when we [unclear] it made [unclear]. And our place was nothing but a scummy swamp. [unclear]-then again, my mother was a more-pioneer. You know, we were-we thought she'd gone absolutely crazy. [chuckles]
I:	So the other families were-I guess they were the same type of people. They were [unclear].
RW:	[several words unclear]. But I never-and when my father, you see, he got the other families involved in the church. It was a community church then because you couldn't segregate the different religions because they were just maybe one [unclear]. So they called it the community church.
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	[unclear] brought the first minister from Canada. Isn't that interesting? [unclear]
I:	Okay, it started as a community church because there wasn't enough of any one religion-
RW:	Oh, no. Exactly. If you were Catholic you went to the Catholic church. But even that was too far, so everybody went-most [unclear] community church.
I:	And then do you remember when St. Peter's was built [unclear] church?
RW:	I don't remember that.
I:	Ya.
RW:	I probably was in boarding school. I was there for three years.
I:	What about living on Shore Drive? What was that-
RW:	Shore Road.
I:	Shore Road. What was-do you recall-
RW:	When we got married-
I:	Ya.
RW:	-as I said, we lived on Cobb Road in my husband's mother's house. Then we moved to Shore Road because it was right across from the lake and there were no houses around the lake at all. [unclear] lake. And we moved there and we lived there until-well, we [several words unclear] in the Marine Corps. It was about 1944 we moved to [unclear]. We had gone to Towaco. We moved from Towaco to Laurel Hill Road about [unclear].
I:	Mm-hmm. And then-so you were the first house on Shore Road then?
RW:	Not on Shore Road-yes. No-yes, I guess-no, we weren't the first. There were other people. See, by the time we got there we had [several words unclear].
I:	Ya, because I think there are some Hapgood houses on-
RW:	A lot. Ya.
I:	Ya [unclear].
RW:	The one we lived in was a Hapgood house. But, as I said, you could hardly tell them because he would turn the plans over and the back door would then be the front door. I mean, would put facing on the front.
I:	I see. He had four-
RW:	About four-
I:	-floor plans he used.
RW:	Ya, he would turn them this way and this way, whatever.
I:	So that's why no two houses are alike in this-
RW:	Ya.
I:	And the outsides of houses are different too.
RW:	Well, of course-
I:	Ya.
RW:	-now, most people have renovated their houses, put on a different front or [unclear]. But every house had chestnut [unclear].
I:	Ya. Now, here's-all the chestnut just died then, all the chestnut trees.
RW:	They cut them. They were [unclear]. See, they were down in that swamp. They cut down all of the trees and just used those trees-
I:	Right.
RW:	-to build with.
I:	But-and they cut down all the trees, you know, in town and still-
RW:	Oh, ya.
I:	-use them for the hardwood-for the woodwork. But-so he-but he did have each house, the exterior of the houses were different.
RW:	Ya.
I:	I guess that was part of his idea was to-
RW:	Oh, ya. Sure.
I:	-make every-do you know whether people sort of designed their own interiors? You know, which they said [unclear]-
RW:	[unclear] interior. Now, for instance, when we moved out-in on Laurel Hill he came-he had wanted my mother to paint every room the color she wanted, to paint the woodwork whatever she wanted. And in the dining room there were [unclear] that the dining room [unclear]-everything to make them different. And you could-in those days you could sort of select because whatever you-he wanted to sell the houses [several words unclear].
I:	So that was-so there was some interior differences too there.
RW:	Oh, the plan's sort of a little but not too much because I've known any one of these houses a long time. "Oh, I remember when so and so lived there."
I:	I see.
RW:	Ya.
I:	Ya. So you-what do you think about Mountain Lakes today as compared to-
RW:	Oh, I have never been out of Mountain Lakes.
I:	Ya.
RW:	And I'm 97 and I've never been out of Mountain Lakes really.
I:	Ya. What do you think about Mountain Lakes now?
RW:	Oh, I think it's beautiful. [unclear] Of course, now, with the mayor-I mean, it's being run like a town. Before that it was a hit or miss type deal, you know.
I:	Uh-huh. But it's-the town is still [unclear] this-a lot of the qualities that it had when you [unclear]?
RW:	Oh, ya. I hope it never changes. It has somewhat, of course, but I mean drastically.
I:	There's been a lot of building that's gone on during the years.
RW:	And all these houses that are being renovated, it's amazing, and practically every other one no matter where you go.
I:	Mm-hmm. I guess that's-I guess it's easier to renovate than [unclear] in a house.
RW:	Well, they found that it was cheaper to add on to these houses than tear them down, start from scratch like where I live.
I:	Uh-huh. So you think the face-the character of the town is the same, [unclear]?
RW:	Well, it started to change in the senior citizens. [unclear] the town council and we [unclear]. Yet, we weren't about [several words unclear]. That was after they had put some of these things [unclear] houses. And we wanted it to go back to the typical Mountain Lakes house, which they're trying to do.
I:	Right, ya.
RW:	Which I'm really glad.
I:	Some of them got a little bit too [several words unclear].
RW:	[sentence unclear]. But I think most of the houses in Mountain Lakes are beautiful homes and everybody keeps up their grounds. [several words unclear] do a good job. Of course, naturally, I guess-I told you I've never been out of Mountain Lakes.
I:	Do you-the recreation things were focused out on lakes. Is that right? Was it-
RW:	Well, everybody had their own recreation. People went on a lake. I mean, there was no organized recreation then.
I:	Were there beaches though? You know, there's like Olive Beach. There's-
RW:	No, that wasn't there. The only beach-oh, there was a beach-Birchwood Lake. The [unclear] was like-Mr. Leonard owned the property and he brought in white sand and made a beach over there. And he had diving boards and-oh, he planned-he owned all that property there.
I:	Where is this? Which lake?
RW:	[unclear] Lake.
I:	Okay.
RW:	Back of where John lives. He lives on [unclear].
I:	Oh, right. Okay, ya.
RW:	That lake.
I:	Ya, that-
RW:	Right across from John was a white sand beach and everybody went really. You couldn't go swimming in Mountain Lakes because of the algae in the big lake. So you would keep-that lake, of course, is much smaller.
I:	Right.
RW:	And he would plant flowers, bring in white sand and-
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	-everybody went swimming there-everybody. And we used to have [unclear] there, you know.
I:	That is where-right where the school is, where the Wildwood School is then? Is that where it was or-
RW:	Well-
I:	You said it was across from John's-
RW:	Ya, [unclear] Wildwood School [several words unclear].
I:	Ya. Well, that was where the beach was?
RW:	Ya, Birch Beach. Everybody loved-
I:	Okay.
RW:	-Birch Beach.
I:	And that was-that's-how many years was that-they did that?
RW:	Well, I don't know.
I:	Because there's nothing there [unclear].
RW:	[unclear].
I:	Yes, ya.
RW:	Well, Mr. Leonard moved out about [unclear].
I:	That-oh, so, they built houses in there afterwards?
RW:	Oh, much, much later.
I:	Ya. Oh, I see.
RW:	Much later.
I:	Where is-ya, so that was-at one time it was-it's where those houses-newer houses were built. That's where the beach area-
RW:	There were no houses on that strip there.
I:	Oh, okay.
RW:	There was none at all. And he owned I don't know how many lots. He lived across the lake from the beach. He owned that property. He was in the steel door business.
I:	Is that right? Do you remember any others-any other people in town who were interesting people?
RW:	Not really. Of course, you see, I was young. I didn't know people. The people I knew were kids my age.
I:	Ya. But you lived in the town another 20 years so [unclear]-
RW:	Ya, [chuckles] from 1911 and I'm 97 [unclear] many years-
I:	Ya. So-but you remember some of the movie star types who-but they didn't last for very long.
RW:	No, they didn't stay long. We all knew that they were there and thought it was a grand idea that we-[unclear] Hollywood-type people here.
I:	I see.
RW:	As I said, we had nothing to do for them.
I:	Right. Anything else? Any other particular memories about Mountain Lakes you want to-
RW:	Not really, [unclear] I can think of. At one-oh, years later, probably, ya, in the '20s they started-people started moving in and building their own houses, and a lot of houses that were not built by that company [unclear] and then the house that I lived in.
I:	Mm-hmm. So that was a lot of-and that was done just sort of on a house by house basis.
RW:	Ya. But the old houses are still there, like the [several words unclear]. He was the inventor of the paper plate and the paper cup. Mr. Luellen; he was a character.
I:	Uh-huh. So he was the original-that was the original paper cup-was his company? Now, was he the first one who moved into town then?
RW:	I'm not sure about that; I think so. In fact, I know so because that's where we all gathered for the first Fourth of July, 1912.
I:	Mm-hmm. Does-that famous photograph of the picnic-is that the one you're talking about? Okay.
RW:	It's over on the wall in the Mountain Lakes station.
I:	Right.
RW:	And a picture of my mother on the lake. We'd ice skate with skirts down to here. We made [chuckles] our fun on the lake swimming and boating and skating, you know. That was our main-
I:	Right.
RW:	-place for any activity at all.
I:	And your mother was active as-in sports as well as-
RW:	Oh, ya.
I:	-being a part of-
RW:	Every father and mother-of course, they were active in the church. As I said, my father started it.
I:	Mm-hmm. Did your mother get-got to be kind of a well-known person because of all the traveling she had done?
RW:	Oh, ya. She lectured in front of the AAAs all over the country. And she was on Art Linkletter's program-
I:	I see.
RW:	She was years and years ahead of her time.
I:	Ya.
RW:	Years ahead. Thank the Lord my genes are like hers, not my father's.
I:	[chuckles] So you did the same kinds of things, did you?
RW:	Ya.
I:	You've been a very active person.
RW:	Well, yes. I started the first-my first volunteer was in boarding school [unclear]. I started the girls knitting sweaters and rolling bandages in the First World War.
I:	Is that right?
RW:	Then I drove for the Red Cross for three years. I served on the hospital up here-St. Clare's Hospital-a [unclear]. I worked there for six years and my son and I started the Children's Center in 1953 in Morristown. We started that. I mean, he and I were the only people there.
I:	I see.
RW:	We now have what, a $5 million building. And I have-I mean, I had no auxiliary. I started the auxiliary. I had one member and I now have 77.
I:	Is that right?
RW:	And we give the center 10,000-[unclear] gives them $10,000 every year. We sell pecans and pies and [unclear]. We work. Ya.
I:	So you started a lot of these-
RW:	Ya.
I:	And you were active during the First World War then?
RW:	Oh, ya. Sure.
I:	Ya. So did-were you-did you go overseas-
RW:	No.
I:	-during the war? You stayed, okay.
RW:	Right here.
I:	Ya.
RW:	Ya, Red Cross.
I:	Red Cross. But there was a lot of things to do, I guess. Did you think about becoming a doctor or-
RW:	Many times.
I:	Is that right?
RW:	I took a course, a Red Cross course-an advanced course. Well, I tried to-I [several words unclear] when they found out my age. They stuck my trunk back [unclear] my mother. [chuckles] That finished me then.
I:	Was that-would it be like a medical degree?
RW:	Nurse's assistant.
I:	Ya, right.
RW:	Not a real [unclear]. Well, I'd stay. I would have [unclear] nurse. When they found out my age [unclear].
I:	Uh-huh. But you didn't ever become a doctor; you thought about it but-
RW:	[unclear]
I:	Was that kind of hard to do at the time if you [unclear]-
RW:	Oh, ya. Well, my son became a physical therapist and he and I started paying for crippled children and adults [unclear] what we started. The time of the essence was then, of the [unclear]. [tape turned off/on]
I:	So you [unclear] during the First World War.
RW:	Ya, and then I was on the hotline [several words unclear] horrible. And [unclear] there for six years. Ordinarily, they don't allow you to stay that long. [unclear] horrendous-really horrible.
I:	When you say the hotline, what is that?
RW:	[several words unclear]
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	We went to school with psychologists and psychiatrists.
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	And we had to pass an examination before we were allowed to use the phones by ourselves. And of course, everything is anonymous so these people [unclear] to [several words unclear]. But I served there six years. Tough going. [chuckles] But as I said, I drove for the Red Cross. My son was in the Marines. My husband was a right aeronautical volunteer.
I:	Oh, I see.
RW:	And I was driving for-so the whole bunch of us were mixed up in-
I:	[unclear].
RW:	[unclear].
I:	Well, this has been extremely interesting because-
RW:	[chuckles] I hope I wasn't too long.

End of Interview

Transcribed by Tapescribe, University of Connecticut at Storrs, 2003, edited by Margarethe P. Laurenzi, coordi nator, Oral History Project of the Historic Preservation Committee of Mountain Lakes, October 2003, with assis tance from Jackie Burkett, Borough Archivist.

Oral Histories and Recollections